So my last conversation with a Mormon (see previous post) wasn't the end of my Facebook fun with that particularly wacky sect of the already-wacky Christianity. That's right, there's more! Megan recently posted a video of Elder Jeffrey R. Holland speaking at the Mormon General Conference, which is a big gathering with Mormon leaders speaking to the entire LDS population. Those who don't attend personally are expected to watch it on television that Sunday. Elder Holland talked about how upset he is that people continue to attack the Book of Mormon even though its quite obviously the divine and inspired true word of God. His proof to back up that claim? Quotes from the Book of Mormon and other LDS doctrine. Megan commented on how that's unacceptable logic, and in the process ignited a shit storm of some of the stupidest comments we've had the pleasure of laughing at in a good long time.
As with the previous post everyone who commented gets their own color, like this, this, or even this. There are some occasions where I add in information after the fact to clarify a point. In these instances I put my extra info in brackets and colored like [this]. I've also given everyone pseudonyms (not just the stupid people this time!) except for Megan and myself, as several different individuals of varying religious persuasions commented and I didn't want to trample on any toes. Unfortunately our main Mormon Z didn't pop up this time (maybe he learned his lesson?) which is a real shame, as I always know I'm about to see something hilarious when he comments on Facebook.
Anyone reading this post who isn't intimately familiar with Mormonism should read the last "Conversation With a Mormon" post first, as it explains in detail many facets of the Mormon religion that aren't explained this time around.
Without further ado I give you More Conversations With Mormons:
Megan
He talks and talks and talks, but says nothing. He has harsh words for people who don't believe in the Book of Mormon, but offers nothing, save weak anecdotal evidence, to prove its authenticity. Then he talks about how many "hearts" the teachings of the Church have comforted as if believing a delusion is all right as long as it makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside. Holland doesn't seem to realize that his warm and fuzzy feelings come at a pretty high price.
B.R.
Anything to cushion the blow of reality.
S.A.
I loved this talk so much.
A.R.
Okay, you've crossed the line now megan. Why must you post nothing but negative stuff about releigion all the time? Don't you have anything else to talk about? Oh yeah, I guess you do. The "black god" that is Obama.
A.R.
Let those of us who believe, believe. Don't tear us down all of the time. We (I) allow you to believe what you believe without always bashing you for it.
S.A.
Sorry Megan but I have to agree with A.R. on this.
J.C.
what right do you have to belittle a general authority of the lords true church last i checked you have NO RIGHT especially when its where everyone in the world can read it that is wrong and you know it so dont ever do it again its wrong
Ty
This is why:
Religious people do not get the luxury of making absurd claims and then expect to have no one question them or "tear them down." I'd think you guys would at least be happy that she's listening to what the Mormon camp has to say before deciding its full of shit. She could be a lot harsher - people who believe in Santa-Claus-For-Adults and the planet Kolob deserve a lot worse than Megan's polite and well thought out arguments. Its also HER Facebook page. No one's making you look at it.
J.C.
megan knows its wrong and all i know is that she is going to stand before our maker and be held accoutable for her actions and you know what i hope im there to be a witness to what she has denied and i can testify to her comments [for those who were trying to puzzle out what he said due the lack of periods, capitalized letters, or recognizable thought patterns - J.C. just stated that he wants to stand before God on judgment day and tattle on Megan for all the bad things she's done so he can personally see her punished for all eternity.]
Ty
*facepalm* The absurdity (and offensiveness) of your statement aside J.C, you might be taken more seriously if you tried to understand basic punctuation or capitalization.
Megan
A.R, asking questions is not "crossing the line". We live in a free nation, which means that people are allowed to dissent and allowed to scrutinize the information that is presented to them.
"Why must you post nothing but negative stuff about religion all the time?" Well, A.R, because I believe that religion is a negative force that has fought to stop our progression as a species by keeping us changed to myth and superstition. I'm not talking about only the Mormon religion, but religion in all its forms. Yet, even though religion is harmful, people seem to think that it's above scrutiny, that you can criticize everything BUT religion. That's absurd. The tyranny of religion matters to me, which is why I post about it frequently. So, while I may not care for Air Force flight shows, but I don't get angry when you frequently post about them.
"Don't you have anything else to talk about?" Of course I do! If you bothered to look, you'd see that I also frequently post on the topics of politics, science, movies, music, cooking, literature, travel, etc....
A.R, A.R, AR, ...a couple of weeks ago when I was making fun of Glenn Beck for saying that atheists fill the "hole" (there's no hole, by the way) in their hearts with Obama, I had no idea I actually knew someone dumb enough to believe that. Then you have the audacity to bring President Obama's RACE into the issue, calling him my "black god"...well you should be ASHAMED of yourself. To set you straight, I DON'T worship President Obama, though I do admire and respect him as our president, as should you.
"Let those of us who believe, believe." My opinions don't hinder your ability to believe. Though I completely and totally disagree with people believing in something supernatural (for which there is no evidence) that negatively impacts the lives of others, the choice to believe is still yours.
I'll continue this in a second post...
Megan
"Don't tear us down all of the time." My intent is to tear down religion, not individuals. So, if you've noticed, while I say a lot of negative things about religion, I've never come out and said, "A.R., J.C and S.A., you guys are stupid, etc, etc." If you guys are feeling "torn down", that's a YOU thing, not a ME thing. I definitely never say, "Gee, I wish there was a forum in the afterlife where I could go and see J.C. get his comeuppance for being such a douchebag." [referencing J.C. stating he wants to see Megan get punished in a heavenly forum] Why? Because that's not only lame and mean-spirited, it also goes against the religious doctrine you're trying to defend.
Posting Holland's little video got a much bigger reaction than I thought it would. I saw the video on another friend's news feed, watched it and wanted to comment, but decided that I should post it on my own News Feed to avoid the appearance that I was being specifically confrontational to that particular friend. So much for my good intentions...
For all the comments posted in reaction to my posting Holland's video, not a single person bothered to discuss what Holland said in the video. He talked about how upset he is that more people don't believe in the "truth" of the Book of Mormon, but the only evidence he offered for its authenticity was quotes from other Mormon scriptures. That's just as lame as me writing an article and then using something I said in that same article as a reference to the factual nature of the article. That type of dis-logic wouldn't stand up in any normal situation and shouldn't be accepted in the religious realm either....
A.R, J.C, and S.A, because you have all grown up in the Church you may not have heard the several points I'm about to make. I don't expect them to change your minds, but these are things it's important to consider, especially considering that I didn't know any of this until after I'd stopped being religious.
1. Joseph Smith, hereafter referred to as "J.S.", was arrested in New York for fraud after claiming to read people's fortunes from stones in hats. This was before he received the supposed revelation and started the church.
2. There is no archeological evidence to support the authenticity of the Book of Mormon. Rather, there is plenty of evidence to suggest that the Book of Mormon is a hoax.
3. The Egyptian texts that J.S. supposedly "translated" into the Pearl of Great Price are actually pieces of the Egyptian Book of the Dead. Needless to say, J.S.'s "translation" was incorrect.
4. There is little, if any, historical evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ.
5. The New Testament was not written by witnesses. The events in the N.T. were written by people up to TWO DECADES after the events they purport to describe. This may explain some of the discrepancies.
6. The "holy scriptures", whether it's the Bible, Book or Mormon, Koran, etc., all teach divisive principles of intolerance. They attempt to hold people to sets of arbitrary rules that often do more harm than good.
I could go on and on, but I think you get the point. Also, I'd be glad to provide references for any of the points I've mentioned.
Before you tell me about all the good the Church has done (Church welfare, disaster relief, etc.) and how many hearts have been "changed" or "comforted", let me say that none of that makes up for the racism and intolerance spread by the Church. Even if the Church makes you "feel good", as I said before, those warm fuzzies are coming at a high price and you should be aware of that.
Let me leave you with a final quote by scientist Carl Sagan, "It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is, than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
R.
I dig how they didn't say anything back (unless they did privately). I would put my 2 cents in, but it would be redundant. Great points made here by the way Megan, some are things I never thought about or even looked into. :)
M.
I just remembered that you came from the Mormon church. That makes this all the more interesting.
