Recently I had an old Christian acquaintance reestablish contact with me, and it provided a perfect opportunity for a new entry in “The Trades” series. This series chronicles those times when people of the religious persuasion have asked me to watch a Christian video, read a pro-Christian book, listen to an online sermon, etc. and in return I’ve asked them to watch or read a corresponding form of media of the opposing side. If you’ve missed the previous entries, you can check out some of them like “Judging the Case for Christ” or watching that absurd documentary “Finger of God.”
In this latest instance, a Christian acquaintance named Cedrick emailed me out of the blue after we hadn’t corresponded in many months to ask me to watch a video sermon online titled “Lord of the Demons.” I agreed to watch the 40+ minute clip on the condition he then watch an equivalent amount of video clips from the opposing side. He agreed, I watched the clip, and (surprise, surprise) he then wouldn’t watch any of the clips he had previously promised to watch. In fact he’s now simply ignoring all messages from me when I email to ask when he plans on watching those pro-atheist videos.
I have to hand it to the Christians in my life – at least they are consistent, as they have managed to maintain a 100% dishonesty rate for “The Trades” (or I suppose a 0% honesty rate). Every single one of them has universally refused to read the corresponding book or watch the corresponding video after I read their book or watched their clip. I’m guessing they never even considered the possibility that I wouldn’t immediately convert after reading their apologetic material and didn’t think they’d actually have to read something that disagreed with their worldview. I'm certain they also don't feel they were lying or being dishonest, or are able to rationalize it away by believing there's nothing morally wrong with lying about watching a video that is critical of Christianity.
As with the previous conversations with the religious on this blog I’m posting everything in unedited format below – everything said here is exactly as it occurred on Facebook. This one has a fun added surprise when the Christian in question decides to share with me his porn viewing/masturbation habits (something Christians have had a disturbing trend in doing during our discussions for some reason, although this time wasn't nearly as explicit as its been in the past).
My thoughts on the “Lord of the Demons” video are near the bottom of the discussion if you want to skip straight to it. This was actually an interesting clip, because the speaker inadvertently brought up a major theological problem for Christians – how god creates a problem to then sell the solution to the problem he himself made.
Cedrick
u and ur wife should sit n watch this.. encouraged me alot. u have to watch alll of it tho lol
Ty Gordon Arthur
I tell ya what Cedrick. You want me to watch a 41 minute video preaching your religious beliefs. I will agree to watch your video in its entirety, and even discuss with you what I think of it, if you will agree to watch 41 minutes worth of YouTube videos from me that are opposed to religion and Christianity. Deal?
Cedrick
deal! man after watching this bro i just want to run to Jesus.. and i encourage u to do the same.. I need Jesus everyday man cuz pornography still till this day hunts me.. looks good but it'll destroy me. But i can truly say today Jesus has delivered me from it.. Jesus is the answer bro..
Ty Gordon Arthur
Hey Cedrick, Megan and I will watch this video tonight and I'll give you a response to it probably tomorrow. I've listed below the videos you have agreed to watch in return. These are much shorter than the one you sent, so there's several clips all adding up to about 41 minutes in length. I tried to pick a good mix of calm rationality, humor, and music so you hopefully won't get bored.
On the subject of your latest message, I'm not sure why pornography would haunt you, or why you would think it would destroy you. I've been happily married in a loving, monogamous relationship with my best friend for six years, and we enjoy pornography together on occasion. It certainly hasn't "destroyed" me, nor has it hurt our relationship. It seems like the problem may be with your religion-caused guilt, and not with pornography itself.
While I appreciate the good-hearted sentiment behind your statement that I should run to Jesus, the fact of the matter is that I don't have anything to run from, and I don't need to be saved from anything. I'm quite happy with my life, and I'm not afraid of any supernatural being punishing me in an invisible afterlife for expecting evidence before believing in any gods or goddesses. Without further ado, I hope you enjoy these videos:
Ty Gordon Arthur
Thanks for sharing the video, and have a great weekend! I hope you enjoy the clips I sent you. Below I’ve pasted some of my impressions I jotted down while Megan and I watched the sermon you sent over. Points #2 and #4 below are the big ones for us.
1. An offhand remark the guy in the intro made really stuck with me, when he said all the volunteer work they had been doing “increased the fame of the gospel” (or something like that) for thousands of people. It reminded me of why people do the things they do, and how I’m glad there are non-religious and even outright atheist organizations and individuals who donate to charities and volunteer their time to help the less fortunate with no expectation of rewards in the afterlife, and with no ulterior motive of promoting their religion.
2. The speaker made the point, repeatedly, that Jesus himself created these demons, that he was their lord, and that they only served for his pleasure. He stated on more than one occasion that the demons can only do what Jesus wants them to do, and even demons are part of his master plan. For some reason he didn’t seem to then connect the dots that are obvious in this story. Jesus created the legion of demons to physically and emotionally torment this man, and then he showed up to save the man from….the demons he himself had created to cause that torment. Think of this in real world terms. Imagine if I kidnapped and tortured a girl’s dog, and then helped that girl “find” her missing dog in order to make her like me. I think we can both at least agree that would be creepy and essentially evil, yes? What Jesus did in this story is even worse than that, since he was torturing a person through his demons.
3. At one point the speaker mentioned how false doctrine can’t be let into the church, but he believes it’s happening all across America. This is interesting to me, as it would appear he’s never even considered the fact that other churches likely think the exact same thing about him, and he never even thinks that maybe the demons are leading HIM astray with false doctrine. Are all those other denominations really the wrong ones?
4. I can’t stress enough that this man’s views on mental illness are dangerous and should not be followed. Megan and I have several family members who suffer from serious mental illnesses such as bipolar disorder and schizophrenia, and I can assure you that Jesus is not the cure to those diseases. In fact, religion frequently exacerbates the problems experienced by the mentally ill. We have a family member who once chased his son around the house with a hammer, proclaiming his son was the devil and needed to be killed. “Running to Jesus” does nothing to help this person (in fact I’m certain he believes that he IS Jesus), but you know what does help? Medicine. When he takes his medicine regularly and keeps up with his doctors, he can keep his mental illness in check and behave normally. We have another family member who suffers from these mental health issues who recently went into a depressive low after a manic high, and again his belief in Jesus actually made his illness worse, as his depression involved a deep seated belief that everyone he knew – even his newborn grandson – was bound straight for an eternity of hell. And again, while meeting Jesus cannot and did not help this person, medication and therapy did eventually lead him out of that low and is helping to keep him stable.
5. And finally, I noticed he didn’t actually say anything about porn during the sermon, and yet you told me about how Jesus helped you escape from pornography in your message. Megan and I both literally groaned out loud when the speaker said everyone in the congregation should go out and tell people about “sins” they had been “delivered” from, and this is exactly why. No one needs to know about these things, Cedrik. What you do in your personal time is your business, and I have no desire to know whether you are or aren’t watching porn – that’s your business. All the advice I can offer here is to not be ashamed of the things you do, but if you are, ask yourself WHY you are and either stop doing the thing you are ashamed of, or get out of the group that’s making you feel bad about things you shouldn’t be ashamed of doing in the first place.
