One of the areas where this disconnect comes most strongly into play is that arguing tactic known as the “personal testimony.” Anyone who has been directly involved with Christianity (of absolutely any denomination or creed) has likely heard many personal testimonies describing why an individual believes in a talking snake and a big invisible man in the sky. Perhaps they heard a voice, or had a prayer answered, or got through a tough time due to the help of religious devotion, or so on.
For those not familiar with this particular phenomena, here is the definition of a “personal testimony” from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (more commonly known as the Mormons):
“A testimony is knowing something is true through revelation from the Holy Ghost.”
While Christians of other denominations may consider Mormonism to be a cult, it is almost without doubt that they would agree with the above statement if they didn’t know it came from the LDS church. The problem with the personal testimony as an argument for theism is clearly highlighted by the differences between Mormons and absolutely any other denomination of Christianity, from Catholics to Baptists to Pentecostals to Charismatics to Seventh Day Adventists.
The problem is this: absolutely no one can agree on what the Holy Ghost is truly saying. Pentecostals believe the Holy Ghost is saying something completely different than what Catholics think its saying. Mormons think it says something very different from what Baptists think it has said. The kicker here is that all of these groups are equally convinced that they alone are aware of what the Holy Ghost has really revealed, while simultaneously believing that all the other groups are misled in some way. None of them ever consider that the rest of these groups feel the same way about them.
To an outside, unbiased observer it is clear that “the Holy Ghost” is nothing more than any given person’s own thoughts and personal feelings. How else does one explain that one denomination allows priests to marry while another does not, or how one denomination feels that homosexuality is an abomination worthy of hellfire while another disagrees completely? How else does one explain that Pentecostals fervently believe that baptism and speaking in tongues are required for salvation, while evangelical Christians think it requires nothing more than a telepathic affirmation of your allegiance to Jesus? All of these completely opposing beliefs are also all drawn from reading the exact same book. Wouldn’t an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent God make it more clear what He really required to be saved from an eternity of torture in hell?
While arguing with the religious, it’s critical that the non-believer hold the believer to the same standard as they would hold anyone else. At the very least, a Christian engaged in debate with an atheist should be able to agree that the same standard of evidence and proof be held by both parties. If one person in the discussion would refuse to accept a particular argument as valid, it should be agreed that the other party can also refuse to accept that particular argument as valid.
To explain what I mean, let’s take a look at a few personal testimonies I’ve received while debating with the religious. This first testimony found below is from a person we’ll refer to as “Mr. Habit.” While explaining to my wife why he believed in Christianity and why he felt his supernatural beliefs were more real than those of any other religion, “Mr. Habit” had this to say:
Our delusions are not delusions as you suppose. Us Christians have a sure Rock as a foundation to Hold us at peace when All hell Has Broken Loose. But I challenge you, when Your Job Has no more demand for You, and YOur Friends All Abandon You, And Your Love Ones Abort YOu, We will see if Science is able to Hold on to you...LOL!
But Jesus is the Truth the Way and the Life! For He died And came back to Life. I know because I tried to Live by His Standards and MY Death Was Turned into Life.
My feining Drug Addictions, My unnatural Masturbation Habits which I did so frequently that my penis started to Sting and My Body began to age like a 40 year old and I'm only 25, been masturbating since thirteen, and finally seen it's bad effects and started to quit. Masturbation speeds up the Aging Process. Look at the male Black widow.! When it ejaculates, it takes up so much energy that He dies after Ejaculating.
My Lust habits were so bad that when I would have sex with women of whom i didn't even know their first name several times....
My Bitterness was so bad that I told My OWN Mother that I wish I had never been born, And I wish that I myself had never been Made.
My thoughts Of Suicide were so Bad that I Said to myself... That I might as well Search and Find out if God is REAL or Not Before I give my Life Up For Nothing!
But HOW Could Science Save Me from my bitterness, or Drug Habits, or Fornication Lusts, and My Anger and RAge At Creation?
But O' When I searched OUt Jesus, to get baptized in HIs name to See if He was REal, I took His Word for what It was and I was sorry for all of My sins, and asked him to search my heart , and if there be anything unclean that He would not approve, to take it out that I might Live Pleasing to His Sight! All I wanted to do was be a Good Child to My Mother Growing UP, but when I looked at the World and Our Government and Saw HOw Evil Everything was Governed, I felt That The World was unfair and I decided to Give my life away to Riotous Living.
Until I called out for Jesus and He saved Me!
1) NOw I have Glorious Relationship with my mother!
2) I have become the C.E.O. of my own Non-Profit Organization and am as graceful and meek as a servant!
3) And I no longer snort drugs, nor have sex premaritally, and no longer have thoughts of suicide but have rather thoughts of giving life to those who didn't have a fair chance like me.
See that's What God does, He turns your Sorrow into Rejoicing!
YOur Blame and Shame into fame.
Your Death into life.
Leaving Everything to Follow HIs Word( Christ's Commands) is A way to find Him! Seek and ye shall find. KNock and it shall be openned. As and it shall be given.
First off, I want to point out that, as always, I haven’t changed a single letter of what this Christian wrote. All the misspellings and punctuation errors are original text that hasn’t been altered in any way. We’ll set aside all the absurdities and the bizarre views on masturbation (black widows die from masturbation according to this person?!?), as Megan has already dealt with the subject extensively in her blog at this location.
It should also be noted before moving on that “Mr. Habit” seems to think reality is subjective, as he implied that Christianity would suddenly become more real for me if my friends and family abandoned me. For the record: something either is real or it isn’t. Zeus doesn’t become any more or less real just because events in my life go either well or poorly.
Before explaining in detail why I don’t accept the personal testimony of “Mr. Habit” as proof of Christianity's claims, let’s take a look at another Christian testimony I received online some months back. This one is from a previous conversation on this blog (available here) with an individual I’ll refer to only as “DM.” Here’s the personal testimony from this person:
This is the result of the Bible you say was written by humans. A dictionary could not have done this: (a brief history to the present)
Because of spending time with people raised in families who knew not God, I was smoking by the age of seven. At nine I started drinking, started smoking pot at 10 and playing drums in a heavy metal band for nine years starting also at age 10. During that time I made $25. 57 an hour at the age of 18-19. I drove a 72, SS Chevelle, had beautiful blondish/brown hair going down to the middle of my back, had a stunning girlfriend, the popularity of a band member, and all the drugs and extra women I wanted. The years that I was knowingly apart from God were the most irresponsible, empty, misguided and ill-directed years of my life. When at 19 years old I saw a vision of destruction while intensely inebriated, my life was about to radically change. A voice relentlessly called me to pick up and read the Bible. I finally listened, and within a month I was baptized. I read the Bible from six to eight hours a day for the first year of being a Christian. I was trained as a missionary and called to be a pastor after only four years of accepting to follow God. Since then I have seen more miracles and have had a far better life than ever I could have imagined possible. Why? Because I committed my self to the God in Bible study, prayer, and witnessing. Since becoming a Christian, I’ve seen many lives changed from being like mine to being like Christ’s in radical ways. These lives are an example of multiple miracles each. Beyond the changed lives, I’ve seen Sheri take a CT Scan that showed a major heart attach which the doctors said must have been a mechanical error because of the further tests that were done the next day after I had prayed for the Lord to give her a new heart. Larry’s granddaughter was only two years old with a tumor inside of her head the size of a man’s fist. After praying on our knees together, Larry’s granddaughter was tumor-less while the doctors had no explanation. What about a man named David? He fell many feet from a rock and exploded his ankle. When going in for an x-ray, the results showed that he needed to be immobilized in that leg and would need a cast after the swelling went down. After praying about it, the very next day he woke up, got out of the bed and put on his clothes. He went to work and saw the doctor come in, a non-Christian doctor, which was amazed at his standing and mobility. What about when I was working and heard a mental voice give me an address? I wrote it down, told the boss about it, a Christian, and she said that I should write a letter to it. I knew that it must be to my girlfriend’s mother, who lived on Jajoba road, so I wrote and sent it. A week or two later the response came back with an exasperating note that said, something like, “Thank you sooo much for your letter DM. I had been praying, and that letter was my answer!” Time would fail us both if I were to recall all the times I needed money, clothes, food, and the basic other needs of life while a missionary. While without pay for a year and a half with my family, God sent ample provisions for myself, my incredible family, and enough to share with others. Now, my life has been so changed as to have a peaceful, loving, happy home with my wife and two amazing children.
My testimony is living proof that there is Divine power in the Bible that works to do what it says it will.
I challenge all of you to use the Bible for the next year to find what you can to prove that God is who you say He is, and you will not only see a Holy and Living God, but an angry devil. Open that Word and give it a fair chance, and your lives too will be changed.
Again, I want to stress that I haven’t altered a single letter or changed the formatting of this text in any way. The personal testimony you’ve read above has been delivered in exactly the same way it was first presented to me during an online conversation.
I’ve posted the video below in several of my blogs, and it seems it’s necessary to do so again. It’s important for the religious to understand that personal anecdotes are not proof, as anyone can claim anything and I would have no way of verifying the information. It would be just as easy for me to claim that an invisible giant fuzzy pickle named Bob cured a tumor as it was for the individual above to claim the Christian God cured a tumor – and both claims have absolutely no evidence to back them up.
It’s always interesting how the claims of these personal testimonies don’t seem to have any corroborating evidence. For instance, the person who gave the testimony above was both unwilling and unable to provide a link to a news story from a legitimate news source where a doctor discussed any of these “miracles” occurring. I know that if I had a serious ailment miraculously cured through supernatural means, I’d have copies of my medical records created immediately and I’d make them available for the whole world to see so that they too could benefit from supernatural healing.
As a side note on the subject of faith healing, you can check out the video of our own trip to Portland to test the claims of faith healers here. I also have a blog discussing a documentary on faith healing titled "The Finger of God" that can be found at this location.
After having read both testimonies, are you seeing a trend here? Apparently Christians can’t stay off the drugs or keep themselves from cheating on their girlfriends without a belief in a big invisible man in the sky, his zombie son, or his talking snake nemesis.
This all very odd, considering my own atheist version of a “personal testimony.” I’m an atheist, and I don’t believe in Jesus or Yahweh or Zeus or Thor or Poseidon or Hecate or Allah or Cthulhu or any other deity. Yet despite this oh-so-damning fact, I am not a drug abuser. I am not involved in gang violence. I’m not a thief. I haven’t been randomly aged to 40 despite my masturbation habits. I am a married, monogamous, heterosexual man who has never even once cheated on his spouse. I am a productive member of society with an amazing job.
What all these testimonies have led me to this is conclusion: a belief in the supernatural is simply not required to be a good person or to keep yourself off the drugs.
Whenever I’ve brought this point up to the religious in my discussions, both online and offline, I’ve always been presented with a question in response. Christians frequently bring up this objection to give their personal beliefs credence. They will simply ask, “But why would they lie?”
This is a common Christian tactic that is presented in many different settings. Christians are just as likely to bring up this idea while talking about the gospels of the New Testament as they are to bring it up while explaining modern personal testimonies.
First of all, it’s quite easy to see why someone would either purposefully lie about outlandish claims or accidentally continue to spread false information due to ignorance of the subject. Religion gives people things they can’t actually have. By believing in Christianity, an individual gets to believe that they will live forever in paradise, while the people they don’t like will be punished for all eternity. It lets people believe that the creator of the universe is looking out for them specifically. It’s not hard to realize why someone would lie about a personal testimony.
While it’s important to answer the question of “why would they lie?” it’s even more important to immediately turn the question around and post the same query to the Christian. If the very question of “why would they lie?” is meant to be evidence of a claim’s truth or falsehood, then that question proves the personal testimonies of all people of opposing religions as well.
If the theist is using an argument they absolutely would not accept in any way from members of opposing religions, then the atheist shouldn’t have to accept it from a Christian either.
Consider for a moment if a Christian provided a personal testimony from a friend who had given up a cocaine addiction through belief in Jesus. When this testimony is met with skepticism, the Christian asks “But why would my friend lie about this?” Now consider for a moment if I responded to that question with another question: “Why would a Wiccan lie?”
Yes, that’s right, I’ve heard personal testimonies from Wiccans as well as Christians. In fact, I personally know a Wiccan who was a Sunday school teacher for many years and later converted from Christianity to Wicca because the Christian religion offered her no peace, while Wicca gave her a peace beyond understanding.
If this Wiccan woman provided her personal testimony to a Christian, would that Christian in any way be moved to convert to Wicca? Of course not! While Christians expect their personal testimonies to convert others, they never consider that people of opposing religions might have equally compelling testimonies. I’ve heard Wiccans make claims of supernatural healing through casting spells that are on par with any claim of supernatural healing from a Christian due to prayer.
The two testimonies I presented earlier are not by any means the only testimonies I have heard from Christians. While interviewing a series of Christian heavy metal bands for an article on religion’s role in music (available to be read here) I was sent the following testimony by a musician who goes by the name “Fire” from the Polish black metal band Elgibbor:
I came to a time in my life when I felt the lowest. I was doing drugs and felt like life had no meaning. God used that time to open my eyes through some help of a friend. He showed me that He was more than just religion. God still helps me exist in this cruel world. Sure I have problems just like everyone does, but with God it makes life so much easier.
Now let’s take all these personal testimonies from Christian folks, and let’s compare them to the personal testimony of actress Kirstie Alley, who (much like Mr. Habit, DM, and Fire) claims that her religion got her off drugs (cocaine to be specific). The kicker? She’s talking about Scientology, not Christianity, in the following quote:
“This work gives me the opportunity to help people in the fight against drugs, which were ruining my life a dozen years ago. This branch of Narconon especially helps Native Americans in the area. Indians have a big problem with alcohol and drugs. I grew up with an admiration for their culture and was sensitive to their problems.
"Most of the people I know--literally--have been through drug rehabs two or three times. The difference is that this program stops the revolving-door effect. For me it means being drug-free and learning to function in life.
"This program salvaged my life and began my acting career. When I was an interior designer in Wichita I was a druggie and life didn't go well. I'd call in sick a lot, making excuses just so I could do coke.
"When I came to Los Angeles in 1979 I went to the detox center at Narconon. It was like night and day once I had completed the program. I've never had the desire to do drugs since. When I was straight, I had the courage and energy to try to become an actress. I owe my career to my will to stop using."
Neither “Mr. Habit” nor “DM” nor “Fire” can claim fame or an acting career because of their personal testimonies. Should we take the words of Scientologist Kirstie Alley over the words of these Christians?
But it doesn’t end there. Consider the personal testimony below found on this site, which also explains a man giving up drugs due to God. Only this God is Allah, and this man’s religion is Islam, not Christianity.
My life before was bad. I had no direction in life. I was wasting my life away by dropping out of school in the 11th grade. I would hang out in the streets with my friends "partying", getting high, drinking and selling marijuana. Most of my friends were gang members. I myself was never in a gang. I knew most of them before they turned bad, so it was not a problem. I slowly began to use harder drugs. I had dreams, but they seemed too far away for me to make them reality. The more I became depressed, the more I turned to drugs as a temporary escape.
One day a friend of mine told me that he knew where to get some good marijuana. I agreed to go check it out. We arrived and went inside this apartment. There were a couple of people inside. We sat around and talked for a while and sampled the weed. My friend and I bought some and were getting ready to leave when my friend said one of the guys there invited us to his apartment to give him a book.
We left for this guy's apartment. When we got there, he gave my friend a book and asked him to read it, and said that it might help him out with his problems in life. On the way home I asked my friend to show me the book that the guy gave him. It was the Qur'an (Koran).
I had never in my life heard of The Holy Qur'an. I began to briefly read some pages. While I was reading I knew that what I was reading was true. It was like a slap in the face, a wake up call. The Qur'an is so clear and easy to understand. I was really impressed and wanted to know more about Islam and Muslims.
The strangest thing is that I was not looking for a new religion. I used to laugh at people that went to church, and sometimes said that there was no God, although deep down I knew there was. I decided to go to the library a couple of days later and check out the Qur'an. I began to read it and study it. I learned about Prophet Muhhamed (Peace be upon him) and the true story of Jesus son of Mary (Peace be upon him).
If a Christian wouldn’t accept the above personal testimony as proof of the existence of Allah and the truth of Islam, then they simply can’t expect anyone else to accept their personal testimonies as proof of the existence of Yawheh and the truth of Christianity.
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