Everyone gets their own identifying color like this or this, and I've left everything in tact as it was written. Unfortunately this makes some of the religious folk's posts near unreadable, as I've found that Christians on Facebook almost uniformly lack the ability to form paragraphs, use any sort of spell check feature, or understand basic grammar.
This particular discussion was started because a friend of a friend posted this humorous picture:
The best part about it is that the church that posted this doesn't seem to understand quite just what they are saying. They are inadvertently admitting that Jesus and Santa Claus belong in the same category, and completely miss why people compare them to each other.Several Christians came on to harrass the guy about posting it, as many of his Facebook friends are religious. The conversation follows. I came (very) late to the party, so my responses are way down towards the bottom.
One of my favorite moments is without a doubt when one religious person informs me that he can't wait to get to heaven so he can walk past the "I Told You So" holding cell and gloat over my eternal damnation. That's definitely the moral high road right there.
M.
Atleast you are reading the church signs! Lol. You only display pics that you think might put a truth to your non-believing, and that's ok. It doesn't take a "church" to prove or convince you or anyone that there is a God; your living proof of that!! Lol. I know you didn't need a "fat and jolly" guy to make u smile, heck I remember u used to always be smiling! So if you only believe in real things you can see, then you don't even believe in love?! Wow! What a shame you miss out on that! Oh, I definitley always have happy earth day (it's not a mother cause it doesn't have a crotch, according to your previous comments!) because earth is Gods!!! Genesis 1:1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the Earth.
Megan Equality Mattingly-Arthur
Gotta love crazy church signs! My husband and I saw one the other day that said, "Acceptance Through Brokenness." We thought it was a fairly accurate assessment of Christianity, but we couldn't imagine how it would sway anyone to attend a church service. There's another church sign in our town that says, "Heaven or Hell: It's Your Choice". Given the choice, I'll take Hell. There's more to do and I'm sure the people there are a lot more interesting! ;)
R.
I dated an old girl once that I loved sooooo much!!!! She was way out of my league and couldn't believe she liked me... I was playin music at the time and put her on the back burner. Naturally she moved on and it broke my heart. To justify what had happened though I turned it around on her! I mocked her, I insulted her, i cut her down, I blamed her, i did everything in my mind to convince me it was all her fault when deep down I knew the truth!! Seeing ur post I see something deeper than an ex druggie figuring out that God is a joke!! So deep that maybe you yourself won't even admit it!!! For some reason a person who don't "believe" in God sure spends a lot of time trying to disprove him!!! If there's no such thing why spend so much time defending your "mother earth" that you never talk about?!? And do me a favor!! Quit lumping "religion" or perverted priest, or stupid "church" signs to vent ur anger towards God!!! There's "crooked,perverted, weird, uneducated idiots in EVERY walk of life, even in mother earths!!!!! I hate religion to Billy but call it for what it is!!!!!
Megan Equality Mattingly-Arthur
@R., I can't speak for Billy, but as a former Christian turned atheist, I spend a lot of my time trying to educate my Christian friends about their faith because I want to help free them from the religious shackles that bind their ability to use logic and reason. When I was a Christian, no one ever told me that there is no historical evidence for the existence of Jesus. No one ever told me that the New Testament accounts of Jesus' life weren't written by eyewitnesses, but were written DECADES after the events they purport to describe. I promote atheism because I believe that the world would be a better place without religious delusions.
R.
Here we go Meagan!!!! Unlike ur former uneducated "Christian" friends I can debate you if that's what you want!! First of all your wrong!! Way wrong!! There's plenty of historical evidence of christianity so not sure where that came from!! Our entire timeline is based on the birth and death of this man you say never existed!!! There is historical evidence of people witnessing the miracles of Jesus! Jews will even admit that but write it off as demonic!! In our courtrooms today, eye witness accounts can get you on death penalty faster than any evidence!!! If someone "winesses" what they saw its evidence like no other!! Can make or break a case!! When its more than one, like over 500 than to me thats pretty good evidence!!!So that's a pretty good case!! Second of all the gospel of Matthew was written 55 yrs after the fact of the resurection... Historically making it one of the most accurate books In history! The disciples written about in the account of Matthew would have still been around at ti e of the gospel being written! Look at the timelines of "history" we teach our kids as the "gospel" in our school systems!!! Some of the "historical facts" we preach to the kids in school is written as far as 500 years or more after the fact!!!! But everybody is ok with that!!! The problem being u don't want to believe in something where your fate depends on whether it's right or wrong!!!! Another issue is ur reading some speculation "written" by someone and "believing" that as the "gospel" isn't that what were all doing?!? Except where yours is opionion, there is historical facts to my beliefs, and eternal consequenses where I don't want to chance, do ur homework a lil better than watching Bill Mahr, and reading one sided opinions!!!! I told Billy before, I spent my whole smoke filled 20's not wanting to believe all this!! But the more I tried to disprove it, the more I fell in love with a true, and living God that you say don't exist!!! Has nothing to do with religious bondage, but everything to do with a God who loves me!!!!Yes relgion is discusting, stupid people have ruined it for soo many who were hungry for God and sickens me that most "Christians" can't defend their faith!! It's justification for you to do what you want to do and to that I say "go for it"!! Live your life beliving we came from earths crotch and hope like Hell your right..... Oh wait, there's no Hell either to you.... If your such the scholar and your mrs edgecator of us dumb rednecks. I want an explanation of life, plants, trees, galaxy's, babies, etc. Please enlighten me!!!!
M.
Oh my!! Funny thing is, Billy sits back and laughs at what he has started! Silly atheist...
Megan Equality Mattingly-Arthur
@R., there is no historical evidence for the existence of Jesus. None. Zip. Zero. It is you, sir, who are mistaken. The only historian to even mention Jesus in his writings is Josephus. In his mention, Josephus uses the word "Christ", which is a title, not a name and may not have meant Jesus of Nazareth at all. Not only that, but this mention was found to have been a forgery. Even before this revelation, it should have given people pause that Josephus mentions this "Christ" just a few chapters away from Hercules. Your entire religious timeline, from birth to death to resurrection, is based on a character that is just as fictional as Hercules.
I'm sorry R., but you have no grasp of history. Modern history textbooks may be written hundreds of years after the events they describe, but the actual historical facts were first recorded by those involved or by local historians at the time. Even IF the original apostles were still alive when the gospels were written they would have been very old and, for all we know, senile. If, like you believe, the events in the New Testament actually happened, wouldn't it be vitally important to make a record of these events immediately? Why wait decades and allow the details to become fuzzy or fabricated? As any fisherman knows, the fish gets bigger the more times the story is told...and eventually you have a Jewish Zombie Savior.
Have you even read the Bible? I have, not once, but many times...cover to cover. My atheism is not rooted in rebellion or hatred for god, it's rooted in my firm, moral opposition to what the Bible teaches. The Bible is an evil, immoral book that reinforces man's own prejudices. I have far too much moral integrity to believe in the Bible or its teachings.
R., I'd love to educate you on babies. When a man and a woman love each other very much... Just kidding. ;)
Seriously though, my explanation for "life, plants, trees, galaxy's, babies, etc." is simple: look to science, study evolution.
Because I know that your next move will be to say that science is just as much a belief as faith, let me leave you with one of my favorite Christopher Hitchens quotes:
"Our belief is not a belief. Our principles are not a faith. We do not rely solely upon science or reason, because these are necessary rather than sufficient factors, but we distrust anything that contradicts science or outrages reason."
R.
Meagan your wrong and you know it!!!!! Josephus was not the only historian to write about Jesus!!!! Their were eye witness accounts and who are you to deem some one senile out of pure speculation!!! I could continue with so much more from iliad and oddesy to the conversion of Saul, to Paul or how 12 men were able to carry out the gospel throughout the entire world and all but one die as mayrters about a 33 yr old man who was murdered on the cross and thus began our timeline as we know it,(that u still didn't explain) but ur gonna believe "science" over faith so whatever Everythings created by something!!! Darwin himself admitted that!! At least my belief makes since! I'm not responding back because ur set in ur ways but ur wrong!!!!! And if everything was so cut and dry like you make it how come were not all atheist!!!! I'm done!!! I'm gonna go cut down an oak tree and piss on some blue bonnetts!! You win!!!!!
Megan Equality Mattingly-Arthur
Wow R., you sure know how to showcase your ignorance. I know you said that you weren't responding anymore and that's fine, you're free to keep your head buried in the sand, but I'm hoping you'll at least see my response to your ludicrous drivel.
You say that Josephus wasn't the only historian to mention Jesus, but you fail to mention any other historian that supposedly wrote of him. I hate to break it to you buddy, but "The Illiad" and "The Odyssey" are FICTION!! Though, your use of them as references helps me understand how you can believe the Christian myth.
As for using the Bible as a reference to the "truth" of Christianity, let me put it to you this way... Let's say I told you that I had an ancient book that "proved" that leprechauns were real. You'd be perfectly right in asking me for proof. Well, what if I said, "Look right here in my little book about leprechauns...it says right here that leprechauns are real, that this book is true and anyone who doesn't believe in its truth will be unable to enjoy the party at the end of the rainbow." Ridiculous, right? Hopefully you're intelligent enough to see the pattern here...
The reason more people aren't atheists is because they either lack the ability to think logically or prefer to live in a fairy-tale world to make themselves feel better.
Also, R., you never answered my question on whether or not you had read the Bible. I'm guessing that you haven't read it. Based on the whole of your response I'm surprised you can read at all.
R.
You admitted everything I came back with but put ur own spin to it discrediting the historians and disciples!!! Now ur insulting me cause I'm not bending over like all other Christians!!! I have read the bible a few times myself, as you think that's some great feat!! but unlike u I choose to believe it. At the end of the day you believe your book and I'll believe mine!!!!! I have nothing to lose!!!! You have everything to lose!!!!! Now im gonna go get my banjo and play me some Jesus music!!!!!!
Megan Equality Mattingly-Arthur
R., if you've read the Bible and choose to believe it, I'm insulting you because you have no morals, not because you refuse to "bend over like other Christians". Also, believing in Christianity "just in case" is no great moral feat...it's a cowardly act.
I've got two YouTube videos I want to share with you. If you can watch these videos and discuss them with me, I'll think you less of an idiot. If you're as strong in your faith as you profess to be, you've got "nothing to lose", right? ;)
R.
I'll be glad to if you will read Lee strobels "Case for Christ"!!!! At the end of the day it's again ur opinion against mine!!!! Again, for ur sake I hope ur right!!!! Personally I love my God fearing, loving, life!!!!!! Were not all just here for no reason!!!!! That makes no since!!! Insult me all u want but your explination of creation makes no since!!!!
Megan Equality Mattingly-Arthur
You know what R., I WILL read Strobel's "Case for Christ". The book is currently checked out from my local library with an estimated wait time of 23 days. When they have it again, I'll pick it up.
Its a common misconception that when you become an atheist you accept a life with no meaning. I've seen tons of Christians cling to their faith in the fear that a life without god will be meaningless. That's far from the truth. My life is full of love, happiness and purpose. I've found meaning in my life, it just isn't supernatural. We're both here because our parents had sex. What we make of our lives is up to us. There isn't some supernatural puppeteer running the show.
You say that my explanation of creation "makes no since" (it's 'sense', by the way, not 'since' and 'you are' is two words, not the bastardized abbreviation 'ur'). But ask yourself, do talking snakes and zombie saviors really make sense? They wouldn't, if you hadn't grown up with them.
M.
Megan, R. and I could be wrong and we are ok with that.....but NO MATTER what, your still gonna look like that!! Lol
R.
Historical verification: Babylonian Sanhedrin 43a (ca. A.D 100-500) The Talmud acknowledges Jesus' ability to do miracles and attributes this ability to sorcery. The Jewish authorities in Jesus' day did not deny that Jesus performed signs (Matthew 9:34) but attributed them to the power of Satan... Here's Thallus, historian 3rd book of histories (52 A.D) Thallus recorded the darkness (speculated as a solar eclipse) which occured during the crusifixion of Jesus. The darkness was prophesied in Amos 8:9 and recorded by Matthew's gospel in chapt 27:45 the Old testament contains over 2000 predictive prophesies which are very specific and detailed. In Jesus Christ, 456 indentifiable messianic prohesies were fulfilled. The chances of anyone fulfilling just 48 prohesies is a probability of 10 to the 157th power. According to Borel's single law of chance, anything beyond 10 to the 50th power is impossible. This clearly indicates that a supernatural agent was involved. Jesus' miracles were performed in the open and served to validate his claims. Jesus healed the sick, gave sight to the blind, fed thousands of people from a handful of food, demonstrated power over nature and even raised the dead. No first century eyewitness ever denied Jesus' ability to do miracles Over 27,000 sites have been discovered that have connection to the old testament period. Not only have these discoveries provided external confirmation to hundreds of scriptural assertions, not one archaeological discovery has ever contradicted a biblical refrence!! Discovered in 1947 at Qumran the DEAD SEA SCROLLS confirm the reliabilty of the biblical text. These scrolls dating from 3rd century B.C to 1st century A.D are the earliest copies of old testament books. Their predicted and fulfilled prophecies provide evidence for the devine orgin of the bible. "He (jesus) was the Christ... He appeared to them alive on the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other things concerning him." Flavius Josephus (ca. 37-97 A.D), jewish historian, Antiquities 18:3. Jesus being seen by over 500 eyewitnesses; and empty tomb; Jesus' disciples would not change their story in the face of execution!! The reliabilty of the new testament is also beyond reproach. More than 24,000 partial and complete copies of the New testament are available today. Not only are the New testament documents superior because of their great numbers, but because the time span between the orginal autographs and their copies. The new testament in comparison to other ancient manuscripts is virtually free from any corruption. Textual critics have found only one-half percent of the New testament has no variation. These variations for the most part deal with matters of spelling or word order. Not one single variant has any bearing on a doctrine of faith...( I can send a a graph showing dates if need be) Christianity does not require "blind faith" but intelligent faith". becoming a Christian is not a leap into darkness but a step into light.... You can make fun of me all you want! I realize my grammar sucks and maybe im just a dumb redneck but there is more to all this than you want to believe!!!! Again its my word against yours!!!! God bless!!
Ty Gordon Arthur
R., first of all, I have read Lee Strobel’s works, as well as many of the other famous apologetics like Josh McDowell. They were required reading at the Christian school I attended. Like Megan, I’ve also read the Bible cover to cover on more than one occasion. Secondly, adding extra exclamation points isn’t going to make me buy what you have to say. One per sentence will do just fine.
You appear to have systematically missed or purposefully ignored nearly everything in Megan’s posts. You went and quoted Josephus as some sort of proof of the existence of Jesus after Megan specifically mentioned him. Apparently you missed that the words you are quoting from Josephus have been proven to be a forgery since the 17th century? But let’s say for the sake of argument that you want to ignore that fact, you still have to deal with the problem that Josephus also talks about Hercules in the same text. Are you going to suddenly start worshiping Zeus and believing in Hercules because Josephus talks about him?
The majority of your last post is an attempt to use the Bible to prove the Bible, which Megan again specifically mentioned in a previous post. If Megan tells you her holy book says leprechauns exist, and as proof points to her book again, are you going to believe her? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I’ve yet to see any compelling evidence, let alone extraordinary evidence, for a zombie Jew who could magic up some booze from water. You also mentioned the many prophecies in the Old Testament that were “fulfilled” in the New Testament. We can both agree that the New Testament was in fact written after the Old Testament, correct? It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out just what happened there.
There’s really no such thing as “intelligent faith,” as there is nothing intelligent in believing in talking snakes, bushes that burn but are not consumed and have big booming voices, or floating disembodied hands that scribble instructions on walls. There is fantasy and there is reality, and Christianity is clearly in the former category. If you disagree, please feel free to go ahead and perform some sort of supernatural feat right now. Conjure up a talking snake for me, or part a sea, or cause the devil to manifest before me, or resurrect the dead, or perform any other work of magical nonsense to prove me wrong.
Following the Bible is most decidedly a step into darkness. I know that I have no desire whatsoever to use a book as my moral compass if it commands you to stone your children to death when they are rebellious and is perfectly fine with slavery. Plus it commands you to never eat shrimp, which I’m afraid is something I just can’t abide :)
I understand why you want to believe in all this nonsense. It’s scary to think that you will simply stop existing after death, and the world sure is a lot more exciting when you believe you are part of a cosmic battle of good versus evil. Unfortunately wanting something to be true doesn’t make it true. Oh yeah, and if your deity has a problem with anything I’ve written here, he’s more than welcome to come down here and say so himself. Why does he need you to do it for him?
M.
Marilyn Manson called, he wants his freaks back! Damn, your ugly too!
R.
Well man I hope I get to walk by the "I told ya so" holding cell when I'm going in the presence of God! I've provided factual info that b4 Meagan said didn't exist now suddenly it does, but now its not creditable, and again if christianity is so cut and dry stupid wouldn't everyone be an athiest?!? Guess our forefathers, Albert Einstein, Chuck Swindall, Moody, and all the others were just a bunch of unedgemacated rednecks like me and not super intelligant all knowing works of art like you !!! Your gettin into my bible study time so go continue to hate God but hope like everything your right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) but I'm done just like your not gonna talk me into your sorry excuse for creation I'm not gonna talk any sence into you so whatever!!! It's just gettin on my nerves because u don't have anything other than trying to discredit history!!!! Biblical history! All the eye witnesses, the historians, the archeology finds, is just a big mistake. Keep beliving we just zapped here..... Y'all go back in ur dark rooms and hate God!!! I'm gonna love HIM!!! I'm realizing if God himself were to show up you would still argue it!!!! And I can put as many exclamations as I want!!! keep attacking me and my sorry grammar that's fine but the bottom line is y'all are trying to sound all smart with ur big words but have no substance!!!! I've provided the info she said didn't exist now your just making excuses. You choose to think God speaking thru a burning bush is crap but believe that ..... Poof!! And were all here is the "gospel"?? really? Wow! My bible also does not tell me anywhere that it's ok to stone my kids! Guess that was from other freakish propaganda crap you read! Smoke another one and enjoy However long you have left of your lives!!! Leave me alone. I'm for real done. Not that I'm scared to debate cause I have much more but it will do no good!!! Y'all are right. I'm wrong! You win
Ty Gordon Arthur
The Bible commanding you to stone your children to death if they are rebellious is nothing but “freakish propaganda crap” eh? I suggest you read Deuteronomy 21:18-21 and then we’ll revisit the issue. I’d also say you might want to try more thoroughly reading a book before deciding it holds all the secrets of the universe and is going to be your moral guidance. I noticed you also didn’t try to refute the slavery issue, which I assume means you are aware that the Bible makes it clear under which circumstances it’s acceptable to own slaves. Why would you follow a book that condones such an abhorrent and morally bankrupt practice?
I had a good chuckle when you said “Well man I hope I get to walk by the ‘I told ya so’ holding cell when I'm going in the presence of God!” The fact that you want to gloat over my eternal damnation to your invisible sky daddy says something about your character, and is yet another reason why I don’t want to be counted among the adherents of your religion. Your comment also showed another clear reason why people are willing to cleave to religion despite a lack of evidence. Religion lets you believe that people you don’t like will be punished by a supernatural being while you (being the “good guy” of course) will be rewarded. Hmm, what does that sound like? Might want to take another look at the picture that started this whole discussion…
I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised that you tried to paint Albert Einstein as being a theist or Christian. This is an urban legend that’s been perpetuated by religious people of various stripes for decades now. Einstein has one quote about God that has been taken out of context and repeated ad naseum by Christians for far too long. Einstein himself was even aware this had happened and responded by saying "It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly." Einstein at best could have been considered an agnostic deist – someone who believes that if some supernatural power exists, it isn’t something you can have a personal relationship with and it doesn’t require any particular action on your part.
It’s very interesting that you keep having to fall back on this idea that Megan and myself somehow hate your deity because we disagree with your religion. I can’t possibly hate your deity, as I don’t even believe that it exists. I think it would be safe to say that you are an atheist in regards to deities such as Zeus or Hecate. Does that mean that you secretly know Zeus is real and just hate him for some reason?
You stated that “if christianity is so cut and dry stupid wouldn't everyone be an athiest?” You don’t seem to realize what a can of worms you’ve opened here. There are lots of people who believe lots of crazy things, but belief doesn’t equal reality. Not everyone disbelieves in voodoo magic or ghosts, so are you saying that means voodoo magic and ghosts are real? I know people who don’t disbelieve in fairies – does that mean that fairies are real? By your reasoning, if fairies were so “cut and dry stupid,” then no one would believe in them.
You’ve again tried to bring up the “eyewitness” accounts of the gospels as proof that Jesus existed and performed magic. I’m not sure why we have to keep rehashing this. The gospels were written decades after the events they describe, so they absolutely are not eyewitness accounts. You are also still missing the point that you can’t use the Bible to prove the Bible. You say that the Bible is true, and when I ask how you know, you then respond by saying you know because the Bible says so. That’s circular reasoning, and it doesn’t hold water at all.
Finally, you said “You choose to think God speaking thru a burning bush is crap but believe that ..... Poof!!” Um, no, I don’t believe that existence just magically happened in a “poof!!” That’s what you believe – that a big invisible man in the sky magically poofed everything into existence in six days.
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